Video 34

35. Mandukya Upanishad | Chapter 3 Karika 1

Oh bhadram Karen efficient Aoyama diva petrm posh a moksha period otra steerer Iran gosh - two volumes Astana be via Shima diva he tada Yahoo swass teen Indra British rava swass Tina Pasha suave de soie Steen a star show air Astana me sua steno BRE Hospital Dada - own Shaun - Shaun - Shaun so we are about to start the third chapter and somebody pointed out that this today starts my third year here I yesterday completed classes wise I mean I have two years now in the centre in New York with the 3rd chapter of the Manduca carica which has four chapters the first one being a gamma Pro Karuna the chapter on the Upanishad itself the second chapter of Manduca Rika is called White at Capricorn which means the chapter on the falsity of the universe and the third chapter is called adwaita proc arena which means the chapter on non-duality and the fourth one is called a lot of Shante proc arena the chapter on quenching of the firebrand whatever that is will see in time but the third chapter the chapter on non duality you know it's probably the most important chapter you might say you see that for everything it's the most different but it's most important in the sense that this is what Vedanta is all about the absolute the Atman Brahman non duality so this is the chapter on non duality what see in the earlier chapter we talked about the the world as an appearance that it's not true in itself it's an appearance not the absolute truth and why not this is this was all discussed in this industry in the second chapter but falsity of the world is a secondary teaching of Advaita Vedanta the primary teaching is the absolute nature of reality which is our own reality so that is what is going to be discussed in this chapter and that's why it's very important and there there are extraordinary insights into the in this chapter which has 48 verses and it is based on the the Upanishad itself of course remember the structure of the text which we are studying the original text is called the mandu Kyo Upanishad which is a very short text it has only 12 mantras and enveloping it all is the Manduca carica a series of verses composed by guru father who was Shankar Acharya screws guru so the Manduca Upanishad the original text is embedded in the Manduca tariqa it's in there where is it embedded in the first chapter so the first chapter contains the Mundaka Upanishad along with other characters explanatory verses the second chapter is entirely composed of the carica are composed by goethe pada so is the third chapter third chapter we are going to not going to come across the opening shot itself we're going to come across diverse is composed by God our Father and the fourth chapter also are verses composed by guru pada but and of course all these verses second chapter third chapter four chapter they're all based on the Upanishad there's no doubt about that but especially this third chapter Advaita pro karana is deeply rooted in the opposition itself so we need need to keep the the essential teaching of the opposition in mind when we studied the third chapter remember what did the open he should say the open assured said knowledge of the ultimate reality will solve all our problems knowledge of the reality will solve our problems what is the ultimate reality which is called Brahman in the open assurance the ultimate reality is our own self what our real self not what we perceive to be our self what we understand it right now if you understood our real self as it is then there would be no question of any further enquiry if you know what is the truth what is the need of inquiry the open issue claims that we do not know the truth about ourselves if you do the truth about about ourselves then it would actually help us to transcend all the problems all sufferings in life now that's a very big claim to make how do you go about it each Upanishad has its own approach the man dukhia has its very unique and very well-known approach it is the approach of examining the self through the through the phenomena of waking dreaming and deep sleep it says the self what we are is the ultimate reality and this said Atman is Brahman in fact the muhabba can demand open assured says I am Atma Brahma this very self is the ultimate reality Brahman I'm giving a quick recap to a recapitulation of the Upanishad itself within a few minutes because that's the groundwork and we need to keep that in mind when we discuss over the next few weeks when we discussed this chapter this very self is the ultimate reality then the open assured said if you remember so I am at much autosh part this self has four aspects three of which are well known to us and the fourth one is what is what we are trying to point out what the open assured is trying to teach us so the Ashman has the self has four aspects in sanskrit the aspects are called power the aspect so four aspects one two three and four the first aspect is is what is called the Waker the second aspect is the dreamer I mean who we are when we dream in our dreams the deep sleeper in our deep sleep and each of them they experience a world this is this self and the world the subject and the object each one experiences of all the Waker experiences a physical world a subtle world and the deep sleeper experiences the potential or causal the darkness physical or gross gross in a sense of physical you remember the open ocean the Waker experiences the world through the senses if this same seems unfamiliar actually it is just a what is called up in Sanskrit they call it a Nevada and what does not mean translation I mean in Indian languages and other means translation the in philosophy a Nevada means a repetition of our experience a description of our experience this is how we experience life you are the Waker right now and you are experiencing a world of sights and sounds and smell and taste and touch and internally this this subtle universe is experienced all the time but specially in dreams right now also we experience the subtle universe when we look inside and find thoughts and feelings and emotions and memories and desires that's the subtle universe the world of our thoughts our mind but that becomes most vivid in dreams where the external world is cut off when you fall asleep the senses sensory system is shut down and you experience live in a world of dreams that's the second one the subtle and all of this is merged in a blankness which we call deep sleep and that is also we realize we just also a kind of experience where you are the deep sleeper and you experience the causal causal means the subtle universe and the gross are from your point of view they are merged in the in the blank in the blankness of deep sleep why it's causal because from your point of view all of this which you experience seems to emerge from from your deep sleep experience when you wake up it's all there I know that we assumed it was there and we did not see it but from your perspective it seems that all your experiences were merged into blankness nothingness in deep sleep it goes away and in when you dream or wake up it seems to come back again so from that perspective the deep sleep is seen as a God epatha in the first chapter described it as a seed state as a causal state as a potential state and remember again these all of these had sanskrit names the first one the Waker was called do you remember which one the dreamer was called ty just say yeah don't be shy they just so tell me I feel happy when I hear you brag yeah when you women certainly some people remember the names Brad yeah and these all had had cosmic dimensions also what I mean by cosmic dimension is there's an individual dimension each of us is individual so you are awake er I am a baker each of us is a fakir right now hopefully and but all the wakers sentient beings put together there's the conception of one consciousness in which all of us are united right now and that one was called viraat if you remember Viraat a consciousness in which the entire universe is united together that is called the the cosmic aspect of God the gross cosmic aspect of God then in just like the cosmic mind all minds together something like a mental world-wide-web here in near Garba that's called it wouldn't be far from calling it far from truth if you called it the mind of God you know the term the mind of God and the causal aspect is consciousness with the power of Maya which projects all of this so that was called Ishwara so this is the self subject the object and this is gone basically same thing they are not three gods they are not three selves no more than you are three you're not the same person you are but as your experience changes it's it's actually a direct description of our experience with the slight caveat here that this thing is of course based on faith to some extent because I know I am a sentient being here within myself and associated with a body and mind I know it I experience it directly so do you each of us undeniably experiences this but there is a consciousness associated with all beings in this universe which considers the entire universe to be its body which is described in the bhagavad-gita in 11 chapter that is a matter of faith for us in fact to some extent that you are a conscious being in that body is a matter of faith for me also because I take it for granted but I don't experience it directly I experienced you as a body that you are there I experience you as your behavior your language but I don't experience you internally as I experience myself so even there in philosophy it's called the problem of other minds just actually discussed it so it's a chapter in the philosophy of mind in any textbook how do you know that other beings have Minds we just see their behavior in body so it could be a zombie so all right so this is what was discussed in the first few months of the opening shot then what do you open it so basically this is not anything new this is just a description of our experience in Sanskrit and Nevada a repetition of our experience a daily experience now what the Upanishads said was these are three aspects of the self of yourself but there is a fourth the fourth Turia to reom to the earth - Liam - liam literally means the fourth Turia means it doesn't mean anything else what is that it's pure consciousness or pure awareness that pure consciousness as you if you remember it's not actually a fourth thing apart from these three these three are different from each other the Waker in the wakers world is one the dreamer in the dreamers world is separate thing they don't seem to share the same time and space and the deep sleeper is again separate a completely different experience from these two but obviously they are all your experiences so who are you apart from being a waked dreamer or deep sleeper you are awareness itself in the stage of awareness these three or let's say two plays two dramas are enacted and the deep sleeper has no drama at all it's just empty stage but a stage is consciousness you are that you are awareness you are being itself such chit Ananda that is called Turia so this was the teaching in the Upanishads now the second chapter but the open assured thought also was that the self the subject and the object that these two pairs in the three these three states these three aspects the first three aspects they are appearances they are not real in themselves what is real is the fourth so the fourth one appears as the three in fact when you say the first three are appearances and the fourth one is real this is actually the central teaching of AD right of Atlanta again and again we hear brahma satyam jagat mithya brahman alone is real the world is an appearance in the language of the Mundaka Upanishad how will you say Brahman alone is real in the world is an appearance the forth alone is real Satyam let us let me use the Sanskrit the phrase is Brahman is real the world is an appearance in the Manduca terms the forth is real Satyam Rio and the world what is the world in this this scheme these one two three exactly very good one two three mithya brahma satyam jagat mithya in mandu Kia language is this medium and the phrase Jeeva brahma havana for every sentient being is none other than ramen is that you remember what what would you discuss that the self has four aspects so the conclusion is it's not that the self really as four aspect the self is really this fourth and it is experienced or appears has the three after this realization this life will still continue to happen like this but you do not know no longer think that you are this particular body mind and this is the real universe rather you are the consciousness in which body mind experiencing a physical universe appears in which the subtle the the dreamer experiencing a subtle universe appears in which the deep sleeper experiencing the blankness of deep sleep appears and again cycles back none of them are real in themselves what is real is the fourth which you are this is unlimited these are all limited this is unlimited this is the ground of disappearance this is the reality this is the appearance such a myth okay now hold on to the questions before we start the next verse the first verse of the third chapter then I'll take a few questions but right now let me complete the introduction okay now what I wanted to say was the the aspects one two three and the fourth one these three other appearance and this is the reality notice some things about this all this we have we have read in the first chapter but I want to bring it forward again before we start the third chapter it will be relevant it's the foundation on which we shall proceed notice I'll make three points here the first point is cause and effect effect effect cause the waking waking waking dreaming deep sleep the first three there is causality the physical universe is what you might call the gross effect in sanskrit Guardium Guardium karyam means effect and karana means cause the the world of appearance is where causality has its play this is a very important point that God our Father will build upon see this this third aspect is called the causal state in fact God or Ishwara is the causal aspect of which the universe is an effect in religions that's why God is called the creator because the universe is supposed to emerge from God exist in God and disappear back into God so God is the cause of the universe on religious language the creator and the universe is the projection or creation of God and so on and this is what God upon the points out cause and effect our physical universe which we experience here is an effect it is a gross of vector a physical effect our subtle universe which we experience inside is also an effect effect means a product but it's a subtle product sukshma and the cause of that is the is the causal state the braga or the Ishwara please sit so caused an effect in these three states there is cause and effect and the fourth one is beyond cause and effect in Sanskrit Kalia carnival action Atma Atma is the self the real self is beyond causality this is within causality one of them is the cause and the other two are the effect basically the law of karma has its has its full run here whereas this one is beyond causality the fourth one is beyond causality the Turia is neither a cause not an effect neither cause not effect or beyond causality let me see beyond causality in Sanskrit car your car honorable action automobile action are other beyond causality there is a rope which appears as a snake the ignorance of the rope is the cause of disappearance and the snake which appears the error is the effect the cause is ignorant of the rope and the effect is the rope appearing as a snake but the rope itself is neither cause not effect it has nothing to do with dig Noreen's nothing to do with the error of it appearing as a snake it's completely unaffected by both or you may take a different example the classic example of the clay pot the pot is the effect the lump of clay is the cause the clay pot is the effect the lump of clay is the cause before the name and form of the pot where before before they appear it was a lump it was it was not it was a featureless mass from that emerged various kinds of thoughts the featureless mass but the clay in itself is neither a featureless mass nor a pot it's just clay in itself it's neither cause of anything not an effect of anything so in that sense notice however cause and effect are not possible without this without the clay neither the lump is possible not the pot is possible without the rope neither the ignorant of the Rope is possible not the mistake called a snake is possible you see what I'm saying so the koream the rope or the or the clay it serves as the ground of cause and effect turian pure consciousness it serves as the ground of causality in itself it's not affected by causality it's not involved in causality that's why in religions mystics have called this one this the the ground of God not God itself the Godhead on the ground of God because God comes afterwards at the causal state and the world is an effect so God is the cause what is an effect but the absolute is neither caused not effect and what Vedanta wants to say is you are that absolute so this is the first point I wanted to say cause and effect they have their full run in that world of appearance in the gross effect which is waking world in the subtle effect which is our dream world and in the causal realm which is our deep sleep experience or in the it makes more sense if we talk of it talk of it from God's point of view as God itself it is causal as the cosmic mind and the physical universe it is effect but as Brahma neither cause nor effect what practical result does it have for our spiritual life this kind of abstract thinking notice that causality in our life is manifested as karma as the law of karma law of karma is nothing other than causality cause leads to effect if the cause is good the effect is good if the cause is bad the effect is bad Swami very kind to put it this way good good bad bad and none escape the law but whosoever wears a form a form is always called it's an effect on bees whosoever wears a farm must wear the chain to what is the farm it's a subtle effect on a gross effect must wear the chain - and then what is the fourth tutorial so I mean Vivekananda says but far beyond name and farm here name and form is Atman everfree no doubt that sannyasi board thou art that sannyasi board say om tatsat oh that song of the sannyasin that that song is there okay so within causality is the world good and bad so good is Dharma moral action done consciously and the result of moral action is called putting our merit and the result of merit is suka happiness in this world and the and if one is deliberately naughty Dharma the result is proper or demerit and the result of demerit is unhappiness misery dukkha and the whole thing Dharma punya suka our Dharma Papa dukkha this whole thing is causality karma and it has its full run in this dis room but the underlying reality is not affected by any of this it's not real from this point of view from the Torian point of view that's one point I wanted to make the second thing I want to say is it's easier notice that in this realm the causal and the subtle and the gross the three aspects the first three aspects there is change there is continuous change in this world everything is changing we are also changing this world is also changing birth and growing up and middle-aged and old age and death we are there where we are going through that and the world is changing so much in our subtle worlds also dreams full of changes faster and a deep sleep the causal realm doesn't seem to be changing but definitely we enter it and come out of it we enter it and come out of it so everything seems to go in there but everything seems to re-emerge from there also on a vaster scale the universe from the causal aspect Ishwara and Maya emerges of the entire universe it runs its course and again dissolves back into Ishwara and Maya Srishti projection steady existence pralaya dissolution this cycle goes cause to affect back to cause again seed to treat back to see digging and sewer de cycle runs but this runs here so change has its hold on until I finish the introduction then we will ask the question we deal with the question so change the second point I wanted to make here is change everything is impermanent an idiom temporal change that's there in these three but the two liam there's no change there it's not static it's beyond the concept of change or unchanging so the the causal seems to be static and everything in the waking and dreaming seems to be dynamic but it's one cycle but the tour iam the ground of this reality is beyond change change means time so the first three are within time time is here time is here in a seed form time is called Maya here in the causal state and its effect we see in dream in dreams and in waking in the subtle land in the physical universe time but to reom is beyond time beyond time does not mean eternal not in the sense of something which lasts for our pretty long time in that sense eternal no no no that is also within time which lasts in time but Turia ms beyond time this it's timeless there's no question of time there time space and causation have not begun yet and in interior in there is no it's beyond time there's no change no time okay the third point I want to make his three points I want you to make the first one if you remember beyond cause and effect Toria miss Garcia Caron of election Optima the self is beyond cause and effect but here the self is within cause and effect waking dreaming deep sleep second one is here we experience change and time whereas Turia is beyond change a change list Jai English means worthless necklace I gave a talk on that birthless necklace I think I give a talk Souter iam is is doesn't is not born nor does it die beyond creation and beyond destruction and the third point I wanted to make was here there is duality in the first three there is duality do item and interior is a do item non duality in the first three subject an object you experience yourself and the other in the waking state we do that in the dream state we do that and in deep sleep we do not do that but it's there in the seed form because it comes back duality the potential duality is there when you wake up it comes back the universe when it is in the seed form as Ishwara and Maya doesn't seem to be any physical universe apart from God but when HT projection starts there is a multum a plural istic universe out there so duality multiplicity is present subject object is present in the first three whereas interim the ground of all of this the fourth the reality there's no duality are do item so let me sum up what did I say the first three are affected by in sanskrit or let's put it in english causality change duality whereas to liam beyond causality change and it is also non dual in sanskrit the first three powders the first three aspects they are they are within carrier karana their cause and effect they are an idiom impermanent changing savvy karim subject to change in modification continuous change flux and do item dual dualistic whereas the tory 'm is carrier karan of election beyond cause and effect it is it is near week are beyond change beyond modification and it is a do item non dual wait i said beyond beyond beyond causality beyond change so there is no causality and no change here interim I'm glad you can read it from there your eyes are good and my handwriting is not as bad as I supposed it was okay right here is the point samsara our worldly existence is this in philosophical language this is samsara causality changed duality God your karana biggest source of acara dueto is samsara it is our world just a description of our word nothing very new I'm saying just as we experience the world this is something when you are subject to these you are in samsara when you are not subject to these you are this is called moksha moksha what is moksha beyond causality beyond change or modification and beyond duality non-dual so advaitha is moksha nirakara is moksha Gardea Karan of a luxury beyond cause and effect is moksha moksha is freedom from the law of karma that's why I'm very kind of said far beyond name and form that good good bad bad beyond all of that is moksha so our aim is moksha freedom from samsara freedom from suffering so that is possible here not here as long as we identify ourselves as the Waker of the dreamer or the deep sleeper now one more thing so when you seed in this way what is the journey from samsara to moksha is it a journey from the gross to the causal is it a journey from the gross to the causal it now I am a body mind but at one point after death or but somewhere I will go to a heaven where I'll be one with God in a causal form you know I am now separate from God and then I'll become one with God at some time we'll pick up and go to heaven or attain God that kind of thinking that is notice that is causality i man in an effect form I will go back to a seed farm I am subject to change I will go back to a kind of static changelessness there I am subject to duality here when I say I will attain God I am a sentient individual being we can helpless and fall in I will attain to the all-powerful omnipresent omnipotent God so that kind of thinking that that is not the way to attain moksha the way to attain moksha is that not causality not changed not duality my nature as a story that is moksha right here right now all the time it's like the clay pot saying now I am a pot but I will become my clay nature when I am reduced to a lump know whether you are a lump or a pot you are the clay now I am a wave in the ocean subject to increase and decrease and diminution and being wiped out when there is no way we'll be flat ocean then it is freedom I will be water no no no no whether you are what you're a wave or there is no wave in the ocean you are still water at every time if - what does the wave have to do to become water what does the pot have to do to become clean what does the fault snake have to do to become the real rope just to know it yes not to change things just to notice I am always so that moksha here is accomplished by knowledge of one's reality what is that one's reality that aureum what's our present understanding waking dreaming deep sleep what is what were we trying to do see the torii I'm here right now here and now that sets us free you realize the non-causal beyond change non-dual nature of the self of yourself foundation for third chapter yes yes it will happen and that's the it's like an internal shift what happens is the ignorance of the tour IAM it's not that you become the turian it's that we we have this ignorant that I am NOT datoria it's like the clay pot thinking I'm a pot but I'm not clay somehow I have to become FLE it's a wrong notion that is corrected so that wrong notion that notion is too weak a word to call it it's so powerful it's not just a notion or something it's so powerful but still it's just an ad it's just in the mind in order in the mind is removed by knowledge in the mind thorium remains tutorial remember that aha moment the penny dropping it does not make you into the fourth you are already that you realize it right now we don't realize it but you then you will but then you realize it and you realize you've always been it it is always being all right that's a very good word internal shift its what might you might call a paradigm shift a sudden dropping of the veil salamé weather conditions like a trick picture I've given this example earlier that he says like you know in of those pictures it seemed to be mass a jumble of dots and things and patterns and say they say that there is a flower there or there is a tiger there in the jungle and suddenly things fall into place you can see the tiger there oh I can see it and Swami Vivekananda says once you have seen it it's done it's done again the next time you see it it might seem like a jumble but it will take a very it almost instantaneously you can see the tiger behind the jewel so that's a example out there this is for your own experience second question I'm using your word astral because the word astral is not used here what probably it is meant by astral is the subtle word the subtle world it's subtle definitely until you get a physical body back again not only after death right now also in dreams where do you go subtle subtle world it is it is all falls into the same category yes beyond you asked what you might call the astral are here in translating sukshma as subtle you can translate a raster also beyond that lies something else called the causal karana but all of them are appearances in in one unchanging reality having said this let's start the third chapter the third chapter actually continues very nicely from the end of the second chapter remember the end of the second chapter what are you supposed to do see the reality within see the reality outside dr. Ahmad d'art make enriched water to enriched water by theater see the doctor means impersonal reality see it inside yourself as yourself Turia I am that see it outside that everything is actually that reality and then dr. Bhutta realized that I am that tattoo aw the doctor'll means that impersonal principle Dada our arm are very important not only is it being an awareness but it is also honoring the Bliss completion so Dollarama means resting in that finding completion in that finding wholeness pool not doing that then you don't require anything else outside you don't require anything more you are not going around in the world with a begging bowl for for satisfaction for completion for happiness that we boutta the dorama that was a pursuit overweight do not slip away from that truth or once you realize it you cannot slip away from that truth I am supposed and John or or bill however much I try however much I pretend I cannot slip away from a bill or John identity right now in that way it must become like that become means that it is that but the clarity must come that way how do we slip away think about it you know if you if you examine it the glory of this this doctor mr. iam we think for example we are completed made whole by in sanskrit it is called baaga enjoyment money if I have my money I am whole I am complete I am much better off I have lost all my money I am reduced I am finished I'm unhappy health our people around me relatives family people who were employees you know people who work for me I feel incomplete and whole and powerful and when those are lost I feel diminished there by my positions fine gadgets or my act my you know my vacations the things that I've done my hard drive full of all the selfies have taken in all parts of the world that adds to my sense of self that is the false self it is subject to increase and decrease getting it and losing it I am better off or I was better off learned at that time now I'm much worse off I was really happy now I'm old and sad and lonely this is the self which is which is being whirled around restlessly in these three states heaven earth and hell daily waking dreaming deep sleep but heaven earth and hell you know different worlds life after life being whirled around bound to suffer suffering is guaranteed there and if you are in this state if if my increase and decrease by my happiness depends on boga but the Toria does not is not increased or decreased by Baga it is complete in itself program means experience people money health objects of the world power achievements what achievements what degrees what wealth and money the moment you go to sleep every night at night it's God suppose I don't wake up again it's gone forever how is it any different from a dinner than a dream so the real self the consciousness in which all of them appear in disappear that is not affected by paga it is not affected by karma by doing see I am enhanced by the things that I have done my achievements in life my good deeds this is from the law Kharma I have done many great dates I have helped so many people I am much better I have great karma or I've done miserable things I am the worst of sinners and I deserve hell I am lowly I am a loser I have not accomplished anything in life all my potential it is the modern world is full of achieving your potential I didn't actualize my potential so I am reduced by it that is the self here subject to this but the real self is neither one of the descriptions of enlightenment to the open Ishod is at the point of death this one does not bemoan you know that that why did I not do great things in life tima Homs Haruna Karim provided right not do holy things great things Darmok things in life Kim Muhammad or Makarov um for what reason did I do sin did I harm people it was I mean did miserable things so yeah this right this is a sign of a good person it's a sign of an ignorant person that's why this open issue this is so shocking it says the enlightened person does not think that way it is neither increase nor decrease by work Karma good and bad it's not affected at all hold on no questions now that is what is meant by that was appreciative of it it does not slip away from its glory by neither increased by good deeds not diminished by bad deeds thoughts I am a holy person I think of God and moral I think of the welfare of the world good thoughts so I am a much better person now I am I'm a hopeless person I'm well I'm in plagued by bad thoughts I'm plagued by horrible thoughts I can't get out of the cycle of negative thinking depression see itself is enhanced by thinking is diminished by thinking good thoughts bad thoughts control mind uncontrolled mind so yeah that's right ignorance absolutely not that's again why this Upanishads is so shocking this is the self the tour iam is neither enhanced by a thinking not in the slightest is neither diminished by your thinking the noblest the holiest of thoughts they all have their role to play be careful or the worst of thoughts the most paranoid of thoughts the most compulsive people are you know they are tortured by their thoughts self turian when you realize that absolutely unaffected just think about it our think about it our thoughts up to where do the thoughts have their effect on you in waking they do in dreaming they do in deep sleep itself to thoughts disappear you still exist as the experiencer of the blankness what thought is there where is the holiest person there it is how evil is hitler in deep sleep is he full of maniac homicidal tendencies in deep sleep no in seed it's there it'll come back again with the moment the guy wakes up but he said about killing people but in deep sleep now in coma deep sleep no with no beyond the deep sleep also is the ground of these appearances not at all affected by thought not increased the diminished by thinking not increased or diminished by doing not increased or diminished by experiencing or enjoying or suffering boga karma or thoughts authority none of them have any effect on it that is why it is called appreciative of it it cannot slip away from its glory no matter what what what is done to it what we thought torture people the subtle kind of torture is much more sometimes much more painful than the physical torture sometimes I was reading a very famous one of the most famous American boy sylvia plath this is a she committed suicide a very young age brilliant but if you see the points they're dark the the fig tree I think that she's sitting under if she talks about the fig tree but I can't repeat the exact lines are very beautiful she is sitting under a fig tree like thinking about her life what she will do and there are these different kinds of things the fruits on the tree and she says I what so what will I be in life these are the things possibilities in life ahead of me and I see myself as a fulfilled you know like a an explorer in pharr of Africa or something as a renowned academic or a writer or as you know as a mother and wife and fulfilled in one kind of life and this or that and they said many many other wonderful things dreams are there and I wait and sit under the tree and I wait and watch and think which one will I be which one to choose until they all begin to shrivel and dry up and drop from the tree and there's nothing left anymore that is not her story it's everybody's story how many of those fruits can you pluck and experience in your life one not two or three the rest will remain and they will disappear or each will come disease will come body will break down life will slow down and finally end she was sensitive enough to see it you're sensitive enough to see it somebody said no wonder pin people shoot themselves they shoot themselves in the head to make it stop so even thoughts can have absolutely no effect on you I've talked to are the Pritchett obovate not slipping away from the truth wait one more point here not only this even at this point even at this point there might be a there is usually I we have come across this question in class again and again I understand all of that it's wonderful but at least one thing is necessary I must remain centered in this truth I must first grasp it and then I remain centered I am Brahman I am - Liam I am the pure consciousness I am the isness witness witness consciousness I've told you this earlier also the teacher who said this is exactly what you must not do somebody said to the teacher Ambrym asked me not to / Kirky recognized this is what I must and the teacher said why turn a corner that's exactly what you must not do why not because that's the last fight that the last stronghold of the mind the mind is still promising you I will give you okay you don't want anything in the world you lose it but you don't want heaven you don't because everything that the mind can give you you're saying I don't want it all right what do you want them you want to be enlightened you want to know that you are Brahman okay I'll give you that I point me to that position and to take care of your brand manhood for you dismiss that guy from that position also then the mind disappears disappears means not physically you are no longer the mind mind will still remain body will remain mind will remain but you are no no you're free of it you suddenly you see a vast expanse of yourself beyond the mind see means you realize yourself as you set free from it there is an X and there is a meditation I think your guevara stir very powerful meditation should try it before starting meditation strongly suggest this to your mind two things tell your mind very strictly this mind whatever mind means any thought any perception any memory any desire any ambition including the ambition to be enlightened all of that whatever the mind can present tell the mind whatever you can present whatever you can think of conceive of remember I am NOT interested what the want the thing that I am interested in you cannot conceive of it it's beyond your reach if you strongly put this dual suggestion into the mind whatever you can do I'm not interested and what I am interested in there is an aspiration it must be maintained otherwise enlightenment will not come and it's actually the mind itself is being diem used to do this drive it into the mind there is something that I want to realize but that you can't help me it's beyond your capacity if you sit down with this powerful thought you will see the mind will just disappear it will shrink away him I told I was teaching this technique once in you know in Hollywood and somebody you know it felt very bad for the mind and went oh poor mind it's like a puppy who's been scolded stop don't think don't talk don't think don't remember don't desire don't plan not interested in your products I'm not buying and what I want you cannot sell you don't have it so mind retreats it shrinks away this is what the talk to are the pretty top of it in that verse Shankar Acharya is commentry we read I was centered in Brahman then my mind was come do you remember last time we read now my mind has become restless I have moved away from my Brahman nature and Shankar Acharya says don't be like that you remember last time we read that don't be like that you cannot move it's a mind tricking you again you you cannot move away from yourself nothing that the mind does can take you away from your circle memory and realization are two different things very quickly focus on this memory and realization are two different things first realization is direct memory is a recollection of something that happened earlier so even if you had mystic experiences some people say that I had that elevating experience you had that experience means you had it in the past now you are just recollecting it that ex is not here now see right here I am here in front of you are you remembering me or seeing me yeah if you stare at me and it's a Swami I'm remembering you it sounds really odd no memory is not required when you are directly seeing something you're not remembering something you're seeing realization is that is that is like that seeing it's not like memory not like trying to remember something the mind tricks you into that remember see what my guru taught me what I read in the Vedanta class what experience I had in meditation six years ago in the Himalayas those are all memory you can think about that no harm but that's not realization not necessarily also not necessary not necessary for this so memory and realization are two different things realization is direct experience memory is recollection of past experience the second thing about that memory and thing is is that what do you remember what do we use memory for we recollect we remember things we like or dislike raga drescher a food which I like I will try to remember her eating it a person I like I try to remember meeting that person a place I like I try to remember you know memories of that place or dislike a person I dislike memory brings it back by thinking about that annoying person or a painful experience memory brings it back haunt I'm haunted by painful memories but once own self you yourself you are not an object of hate or liking desire or rejection is not possible for your essential self it's always there we want something which is not present to me right now we want to get rid of something which can be get rid of got rid of which I am NOT but you cannot get yourself or get rid of yourself isn't it true your own self can you get it you already have it you have it run choicelessly can you get rid of it no you can change certain characteristics of it and so in the third state causal state now okay one more thing about memory and direct experience the mind to recollects experiences in the past and that is what we call memories recovers past traces of past experience it's a rift in the mind and what we record the recollect is called the vishaya Fisher means object so that that food which I had eaten and that food is the wish I object and the memory the movement in the mind is the rift II that is called memory the Atman follow this carefully the Atman the self of the Turia is not a VEISHEA of the swiftie is not an object of memory but but whenever there is memory it is the alumina Prakash Chaka of that memory whenever memory is functioning whenever you remember something whenever you fail to remember something whether you remember or you fail to remember the conscious witness behind it which which illumines it which reveals the functioning of memory so memory does not reveal Atman othman reveals the functioning or the failure of memory this is the point neither the object of the mind nor the mind in sanskrit we Shia Rick tee neither of them can affect the studium no nothing that you can think of has an effect any effect on your real self and none of the thoughts that you think has any effect on it in yourself so this is that word approach you to overweight do not slip away from the truth which you are you cannot slip away now I have been beating about the bush long enough wait wait look if we listen to the question and then go on to start the first but there's a reason why I was hesitating to start the first verse the first verse itself of this of the third chapter is strong medicine you require an entire background of what we have done to take that because it's quite sure the way he begins that's why it's one hesitates to give such things to good people but you are already well-versed in Vedanta so I hope you have got enough immunity to take the shock for the first verse itself dismisses 99% of what we call religion and morality terrible shock especially to good people to religious people to 80s and evil people they'll say ah I knew it that untethered soul or something there's no answer to it there's no answer to it but my job isn't isn't that a cop-out isn't that an escape no it is not how did I become ignorant let's take a simple case this is a very profound case how did I become ignorant of my real nature which has resulted in this horrible mess called samsara how did I become ignorant let me give you the actual answer the what what you would a teacher in the Himalayas would say if you asked this question they would say in Hindi at first that I gank oh Sid the Carnegie koshish Mosquitia gank oh Carnegie koshish gg do not try to establish ignorant try to cut down ignorance what does that mean consider a simple case a very simple case suppose do you know Russian do you know Russian Russian the language Russian you are you're German good so you but you don't know Russian the language you so you're ignorant of Russian that is you don't know the language you don't know it that that's what I mean maintenance just I guess I don't know it that's all that's all now not knowing is ignorance so you're ignorant of Russia I'm ignorant of Russia I supposed to ask you when did this ignorant of Russian start when did it start say from my birth oh so you knew Russian before your birth no I can't the question is not quite right you really cannot ask when and how ignorant started do you see what I mean this is a philosopher JN mohanty appointed dastar long time ago I thought is very nice thing we've always read ignorant vedantis his ignorance is beginningless ignorance is uncaused beginningless but i thought that was sort of what do you mean it's they trying not to answer our questions but this professor Jane mohanty hidden in the Institute of culture in Kolkata in one of his classes he said it's actually a very simple truth we are all know it any kind of ignorance any kind of not knowing in the world is causeless you can't say it started because of this it sounds unsatisfactory I know but that's the way it is though so the thing to do with ignorance is not to find out its cause because you'll never find it out the thing to do with it is to overcome it once you see that such a thing is presented to you and your feeling is ok there could be something in it let me find out not Russian you're free to learn but this one this one is really really worthwhile finding out that am i this thing which see these three I know waking dreaming deep sleep straightaway this is one I don't know this I am ignorant of this one the open assured wants to once just to find out ignorant and the other many answers are possible one answer is I've given you Alan Watts answered and once Alan Watts he was philosopher in a Bay Area Buddhism in 1960 is up to 70s it was very very popular on the YouTube and all in his book the taboo against knowing who you are this little book the secret wonderful book he was profoundly influenced by Advaita and Buddhism he taught and his English very witty so his answer to your question is this how did we become ignorant his this that God was all alone eternally from eternity to eternity God was but he turned it is a long time to be alone so God got bored and then God decided to play man to have fun to play but whom could God play with this is a story he's made up the story whom could God play with there's nobody else to play with so God is decided to make somebody to play with but there's nobody else now God being God is awfully smart so he hit upon a solution what is the solution God decided to be not God now there are two God and not God now God has somebody to play with God and not God but then a problem came God because he's God is awfully good at what he does so when he decided to be not God he really did a good job of it and if totally forgot that he was God and now not God has not God is searching for God's own God nature that is samsara that's who you are that's that's ignorance but that's a way of just a way of putting it anyway will not go any further into that hold on let me just start this force because I promise to start the third chapter you no way of avoiding it get ready now you will see why all this background was necessary to absorb the shock of this verse so God our Father starts with this opus on our schritt oder amo open our schritt oder mo ja t brahmana Berta t ja t brahmani birth 30 property Rajan's Aruban property regimes or ovum teen also creep earnest Dana so creeper nurse Mehta the Jiva who thinks that I am a simple individual being you know and in search of liberation God enlightenment freedom and I shall worship God my Krishna my Durga my Shiva my Jesus I shall worship God and ultimately I shall attain to God so this relationship that the worshiper sets up a duality I shall attain to God before my birth probably maybe I was one with God after my death I shall go to heaven and become one with God I was one with God before I will be one with God afterwards before the universe was created it was perfectly alright was with God after one day the universe will be dissolved it will become all become absorb it card but right now the universe is separate from God I am separate from God and by this worship with prayer and worship and devotion and religion I shall attain to God circlip honest with AHA it's the worst abuse that the open shot can give crapola is petty mean worthless this kind of thinking which most good people in the world hold on to he says this is absolutely wrong so Crippen a sweet aha Cremona means small tiny fractured cut off from reality literally in Indian languages Cremona means miser miserly right in many Indian languages the original Sanskrit from the Upanishads it means the one who is cut off from one's own vast an unlimited nature in two of the Upanishads it is said the one who departs from this life without enlightenment without realizing I am Brahman so Crippen aha that person is limited that person is is as small is petty and this is what he calls religion now this is very shocking but now you can realize why what does he mean straight away this is going to be very shocking and this is what really upsets Duellists and religious people about non-dualism though in a sugar could coat the pill but at its core is this kind of a attitude towards religion that is what sometimes it can be used in a very unkind and immature way like totapuri when Sri Ramakrishna was worshipping Divine Mother those are Polly said what are you doing going to the temple and worshiping that image why did he react that way to - Sri Ramakrishna of course I am Krishna taught him a very nice lesson afterwards but but it's because of this kind of philosophy so first we must understand what's going on here they have a very good reason to say this so once you are trapped in this there's no escape what they are saying is you know what you are saying when you say I am a small creature helpless creature God is all-powerful wonderful and gracious I shall worship God and attain unto God and finally it will all be alright finally means after death in heaven or in unity with God something will happen and then I will be it'll be alright it's basically you identifying yourself with the body mind as a car IAM as an effect you are trying to attain the cause it's the part saying once I become a lump a featureless mass the samsara will be solved no the one which was which who made the pot out of a lump of clay can again make you interim into a pot again the one who created this vast universe God who is playing in a while in what state if you one day the boy universe ceases and God sees his play and we go back to the original state God can play again why not Srishti is their projection steady existence and ultimately it will be cosmic dissolution this person is saying at that time everything will be perfect Prabhu Patel a young servant before creation after cosmic dissolution only one infinite God remains that is perfect but if that is the point then again from that creation will come why not in endless cycle you can come and go it's like in the seed everything was perfect but the tree has so many problems well you go back to the seed again it'll come back ahead tree will come back again no that is not the way out so that is what Gorda pada wants to say he says Crippen AHA and the word here used for ji was an individual sentient beings is Dharma Dharma hi it's a very strange word because Dharma is Dharma for individual beings is something that is used by Buddhists so a lot of the distance are there in the Manduca which led a lot of controversy is to what extent is God upon influenced by Buddhism clear this word is one of the flash points Dharma ha means individual sentient beings identified with body and mind so they think by worshipping by surrender by faith by religious performances one will attain to perfection what they can attain to you see it's true one can attain to a kind of heaven one can attain to a proximity with with the divine personage of God all that is possible go to father does not deny any of religion but he says no final solutions just to be found there you will come back again as long as you why will you come back again as long as you use circulate here you are under the realm of causality of change of duality moment you say OOP asana who pass on eyes worship I and the Lord we worship immediately duality comes in there if you have duality there is a possibility of change the possibility of change is a cause-and-effect relationship God is the cosmic cause and we are all effects if this is where you choose to dwell there is no escape for you so this is what he wants to say the reality is beyond these three the underlying turian that has to be realized not through par sana not through worship you cannot realize the truth by worshiping the snake you must inquire into the snake and find that the snake is not the reality the rope is the reality you must inquire into waking dreaming and deep sleep to find that the underlying theory um is the reality and that releases you I am that - Liam that releases you forever here and not here in now all right now a caveat here never ever abandon your practices from now onwards I'm going to toss out all the icons and images and all my prayer books and we'll stop going to church your temple no disaster lies that way no Advaita has a two-fold use for worship one is as a preparation for Advaita as a preparation for this see what advaita n--'s the non dualist objective is when you keep this dualistic mode as the ultimate reality what the dualistic approach says is that they don't even consider this they say you are this individual being and you must worship the cosmic cause god that's it finished that's what I do it objects - that is not cannot be the ultimate purpose there is no end in that but it can be an extraordinary preparation it can be an extraordinary preparation this opus Ana's worship so it's a religious duality in this world making world it's a it's a circular duality but worship of God is again duality but a religious kind of duality even there there is no freedom but Advaita says it's a good preparation I have myself seen some of the people who catch this Advaitic message very fast are some of the senior monks yes of course they do they have been studying Advaita know by Nature dualistic by nature devotional yet when I speak about it they seem to catch it just like that it's because of the preparation that genuine preparation the simplicity of mind ray the purity of mind when you actually explain it to it to them it doesn't take much it immediately they say yes this is the way it is this they almost see it directly so that the devotional approach the dualistic approach is good practice but only as practice the non duelists will say only as a preparatory practice that's one aspect of OOP asana of worship the other aspect is OOP asana is an expression of non-duality enlightenment but after that also worship of God is easy way is very much possible and is an expression of your enlightenment how if after enlightenment the enlightened person can walk and talk and eat and laugh and joke can he not worship God don't be chant everyday before food Brahma heart penumbra Mohave Brahm hog Rahman autem Brahma hatay niganda Brahma karma Sam Athena this offering is Brahman the the instrument by which you offer is Brahman the one to whom you offer is Brahman the one who offers is Brahman the one who sees Brahman in every action not not note that in every action that one attains Brahman so action is spiritual eyes Don the foundation of non-duality we are using action to attain to non duality can you not use worship who pass enough to attain knowledge of course you can that explains the devotional approach taken by Shankar Acharya and many great non duelists they worship the divine knowing their fundamental unity with the divine that's the highest kind of worship so affirmative our way in a puja eight worship the Lord what is the attitude so hum I am he that's also a ship in Uttarakhand there we have these nice sayings hum could he CUDA now or ham say Judah it works only in Hindi very simple kind of Hindi I myself am God never easy apart from me it has doesn't have the same punch in English the zip in it which Andrew hindi has I'm coding he could add navamsa Judah so this kind of worship so these are the approaches hold on to the question one more I've told you this earlier the wrong or the harmful effect of misunderstanding this half-digested non-dualism non-duality very dangerous these highest philosophy but the problem with highest philosophies it also can be very dangerous goda pada who teaches shoonya vada the philosophy of the void in the moola madam okok Arika not go to bother Nagarjuna Nagarjuna in the moola madam okok Arika he lived about 700 years before God a father according to modern historians he says the one Sunita emptiness is the solution to all worldly conceptions but the one who takes emptiness itself to be another reality for whom for him there is no help at all and he says it's like a yacht a surfboard or greater like a snake wrongly caught if you catch a snake in the wrong end you're going to get bitten and dying so one who misunderstands non-duality it's very dangerous I'll give you an example I was in a one text which is often come come come come one text which is often responsible for such mr. understandings of course this one man or man do kick Erica I remember once before my time a great Swami was visiting the monastery in balute where the young novices were being trained and he asked what are you studying what are you teaching the young boys somebody said we are studying the Manduca you said no no no don't eat them and okay they'll become atheists and another example I've also given to you another text which is responsible for such misunderstandings often is - tava crow so I remember I was in the Himalayas and there was another gentleman who was staying in a cottage just near my up above the road next to my cottage and this gentleman had retired from a government job in Dehradun and he was the disciple of his now of a very good Sal I know that sorrow in Dehradun very well known Sato now that gentleman was sitting and spending his days in in he had come away to ganga three ten thousand feet in himalayas and reading ashtavakra so was i and the gentleman was so happy to see that I was reading ashtavakra and he said my guru he never told me about the this this is the real stuff my guru he just worships the Tulsi plant and keeps fast and he fasts and worships the holy basil plant and now I happen to know his guru who is really very good sadhu so I said to him does you did your guru does your guru read the ashtavakra does he know about it yes I got the book from him so after knowing - to Achra he's still going on doing all those who reach worlds and worship when this man thought oh I thought yeah that is true I hope some sense came into it on him after that yeah this is what I wanted to say about the first verse you had questions and come to you there isn't that's why the that that's why the non duelist will say that the dualist is stuck that is stuck the dwellest will say you ATS don't talk to me I love my beloved Lord my Krishna my Kali and I want to enjoy the company see whether you want to sip sugar or become sugar Salam Krishna asked Vivekananda suppose there's a bowl of nectar and would you if you were to fly a buddy waters what would he want to do sit jump into it or sit on the edge and sit said he said I'll sit on the edge and sit because if I jump into it I might die and then sir Ramakrishna said that this is the bowl of nectar what if you dive into it you don't die you become immortal nectar in fact in sanskrit word is um with a literally immortal so when you jump into it you become immortal but yes the fear is real the fear is loss of individuality when you become infinite you are no longer one finite persons separate from others but the thing is what advaitha wants to tell you is you already are that infinite choicelessly so what Advaita wants you to do really is you need not be afraid of that realize your infinite nature and then live out the rest of the life of this finite personality of in joy and peace and freedom that's what all the way that gives this person will still continue this body will still continue the world will still appear waking will happen dreams will happen deep sleep will come and go but now you're free what sri ramakrishna says he puts it so beautifully that after jana comes by gana when V Gianna comes then what happens to waking dreaming and deep sleep what happens to samsara he says then samsara becomes Leela it's the play of the divine now we may say it's the play of the divine but it's not played to us it's it's very serious to us when you realize the divine and you realize it as choicelessly as your own self then you're free you're so happy with it you are you are you have no problem with the world anymore there is no limit there is no barrier it's all you see what is samsara and what is freedom all this is Brahman I and all this is Brahman this is a non dual attitude all of this is God this is also spiritual this is in fact once out the put it the word used here is creeper creeper no means the small then what is the opposite gota father will say I shall now teach in this chapter a carpenter named Bakshi ami I am going to teach you the infinite the not limited here is the limited who thinks God is separate from me I will worship God and attain to God I'm going to teach you in this chapter we shall speak about a car panem the infinite the unlimited now what is unlimited all is Brahman unlimited a cart burning all is God unlimited a cart burning I am indeed all of this a carpenter infinite all of this is Maya a cart Birnam infinite but we do not dwell in any of these what we do is I am separate from all of this and I am this body and mind maybe I have an immortal soul which will go on to other lives I don't know and maybe there is a God I'm trying to believe in God this is samsara this is crippled any one of those attitudes the attitude of a true devotee that also would be a carpenter nogada buzzer doesn't speak about that that also is a carpenter that's also infinite in fact the question was raised Sri Chaitanya one of the teachers he said this Sri Chaitanya and other teachers of bhakti how will they respond to this verse they will say that sada said very interestingly he said Baba hum opus Annika Hakata hum - brain cut the hem a thicker thing who pass on it we are not just dualistic worshipper that the Opa Opa Nisha talks about and condemns over to God of other condemns what is dualistic worship there is a deity and I now symbolize it through images and concepts and I have for more formal modes of physical worship mental worship all of this goes on this is what is called why he bhakti formal ritualistic worship but Chaitanya the great teachers of bhakti Ramanuja Chaitanya especially the they say love of God not a form formal worship of God that is something they said that we transcended as fast as possible and this mad love of God without any restraint without any limitations comes out any kind of worldliness how is that different from the occurred panem of advaitha the infinitude of a great know that that's how to put it very beautifully if you asked Chaitanya with this verse how do you respond he says you are we've got a party says you're a creeper now and that you are you're mean you're petty he will say my child where am I doing with the soap a sauna I am in love with God I'm a papasan authority car town with a premium car Tahoe bhakti car town so they will make a distinction mr. Ramakrishna would of course agree with this yes the reconciliation is in the higher party God uh father will not talk about it he is not going down that Lane but but yes the reconciliation is the higher but if somebody wants to he's not cutting down that that Avenue because you will attain to God in that Avenue and it cannot be denied and Sri Ramakrishna is living proof of that that's what I emerged was going on about yeah yes yes yes yes he did that's very interesting normally we don't talk about that he's seen as a radical non dualist but there is a text written by God a father called subha go there I have got it it's a tantric texts which deals with the worship of divine mother it's a transect I've got it very interesting it is only in this way it can be reconciled not not not as this dualistic separate kind of worship now in in India you can keep that was always it was it was very pluralistic very open as far back as you go somebody said somebody said the contrasting ancient Middle East and India he says I think they may come himself said Buddha preached and railed against the Vedas in the sacrifices there and the Hindu gods and goddesses and the paths the dusty paths of not India till his 80th birthday nobody ever harmed him they became his disciples in the thousands and Christ dare criticized the orthodoxy of office to prevailing times in in 2000 years ago in ancient Palestine they put him on a cross so it's because not that there was no Orthodox in India at that time there was but there was also this deep underlying respect for multiplicity plurality because this idea is there a comes sattva prabhu who that wasn't you see truth is one the say just call it variously so what did the Hindus do with the Buddhists their honored him the one who criticized the most venerable texts of their own tradition and they accepted him as their own so the day they took him in and they're sort of reabsorbed me into hinduism made him an avatar yes right I am koream this is the reality but now this Turia is the Waker here the issue of you or I and is also issuer in this level of these are two levels this is called Viva Haruka transactional this is called param arctic absolute absolute I and she var1 shivoham but in the biological level i the same reality as body mind and worshipping my beloved shiva who is ultimately my real nature but as this individual being is my worshipped beloved deity shiva but that's not the ultimate truth about us yes shiva represent to diem I also represent to him what does Shiva represent here when I am when I am the wish were the Waker when Shiva becomes Ishwara Hiranya garbha bharat actually Ishwara basically that aureum with maya these two these two make to make a clear difference between these two levels yes she was she was the causal one yeah well she was the causal causal one I'll also be sucking and e gross but when you worship she wash you worship as some who number embeds so that is the causal aspect of Shiva he is what is the cause what is your deep sleep isn't it the destroyer of waking and dreaming is in the isn't it also the source of waking and dreaming so Shiva is the source of the universe the destroyer of the universe and also the ground of this universe the clay out of which the pot is born isn't the you know the car atom the cause is the source of the effect is the sustainance of the effect is the ultimate dissolution of the effect that sounds very philosophical practically when you look at it suppose the wave in the ocean where was it born it was born from the ocean where does it exist it exists in the ocean where will it go it will dissolve into the ocean then the ocean is the creator preserver and destroyer of the wave correct but beyond ocean and wave there is another higher reality or deeper reality what is that water why is water more deeper than a greater reality than the ocean itself because without water no ocean without ocean water can be there can we water vapor can mean some other from in fact the reality of the ocean is watered the reality of the wave is water but when it is expressed then the wave is the worshipper of the ocean very good no problem but what God our Father wants to say is that realize your nature as water then you become one with everything then you become the reality which cannot be affected by waves ocean or anything at all but as long as you have an identity as a wave you are subject to creation you're subject to changes in life you're subject to death and coming back again and again same saguna brahman shiva that is the idea in Hinduism Kali Durga Shiva Vishnu they are all called saguna brahman in fact when you go to the respective Shastras the Andras you will see they all had the same definition consciousness with the power of Maya now because they are in it is infinite you can think of it as Kali you can think of it as female you can think of it as male you can think of it beyond gender you can think of it with form with different forms without form all of that is perfectly all right because it's infinite the truth is one and infinite therefore you can speak about it if the truth is one if the sages call it various limits limited a specific truth then the sages speak of it variously the sages will be liars then if two plus two is four you can't speak of it various you have to say it's 2+2 4 but if it is limit it is limitless if it is infinite and if it is beyond language the infinite truth when you try a beyond language when you try to express it in language you're bound to express it differently you're bound to express it variously that is the meaning that is the crucial difference where they kind of said in the in ancient Aryans in India there was religious conflict there but very early on they discovered this and it led to it provided the foundation for religious harmony in India for thousands of years imagine such a religious country but almost but so little religious violence in 5000 years of history until in fact the coming of the Muslims there's almost hardly any kind of internal religious war although there was tremendous religious ferment all the time there's so many religious about Buddhism came up at one time Jainism was extraordinary popular so many people became Giants and one time so many PKM people became Buddhists at one time so many people became Vaishnava yeah so Indians here our forefathers at one time they might have been Buddhists at one time they might have been tantrics at one time they might have been Shiva's or by Sheena was and so on and it's perfectly all right and each school was competing it's not that they did not they're all nice to each other no no they are fiercely competing wildering said that it's like a gladiator Wars but at the level of intellect and the the Shah started dig this about scriptural interpretation doctrines dogmas but never down to the level of the sword and persecution it never at that level this is a remarkable thing when you can compare it to the history of the Middle East where the same thing was discovered by the ancient Jewish prophets by the Christians by the Muslims later on the same reality they are genuine religions so Ramakrishna attests to it exactly as genuine as the Hindu religions but somehow the truth and anything against the truth has to be cut down when you put it that way it leads to enormous violence enormous violence my my understanding and in this country after coming to this country I'm beginning to get a better feel for it it's exactly the same problem in Judaism Christianity Islam the only saving grace for Judaism is it's not a converting religion there are strict things about you know like against trying to impose your view on the other but the same kind of narrowness is there in this thing we understand in India also same thing can be there but when you remove that with all the best intentions when you remove those restrictions when Judaism is no longer an ethnic religion the first thing that the Christians made it was it's open to everybody a beautiful idea but it carries with it the seed of enormous violence the moment is open to everybody and moment I have the truth and I can give it to you and I can save you with it I can save you with it let me do it by any hook or crook let me do it by any means whatsoever and if it's D truth then what you have must be false you what you have is false what I have is right and I you're welcome to come into my fault if you listen if you say no thanks I will not take no for an answer I have you notice that so that's what happened well one of the seeds for the foundation of this country was the persecution of certain churches in Europe they came over here and because of that this tremendous freedom here but I noticed a difference between religious freedom in USA and religious freedom in India the spirit of open and acceptance is there in the in the Constitution of the United States and the Bill of Rights so each man is free to worship God as he wishes but not within the Christian churches in the in the United States there's a whole range some of them are very liberal very open but many of them they have the same DNA going back 2000 2500 years to the Middle East I myself I am right I was persecuted for this by the Catholics in Europe now I'm going to persecute you hi my little churches right and everybody else all one Swami told me I'll be asked why did you become he's from Carolina I think South Carolina how did you become Avedon 'test and he said look when I grew up it was a very conservative Christian thing but and our minister told us that we were right and my friends my classmates they were all going to go to hell and very soon I discovered they thought the same about me because I am right they are wrong and they are thinking they are right and I am wrong and I came to the conclusion we'll probably everybody's wrong and he became non-religious but their spiritual quest then he read a book Vedanta for the Western world he read it in Sweden and it said when you read that he said this is another alternative to this maybe everybody's right not in every detail of course not that would be crazy but details are different but the central truth is absolutely the same in every religion I was listening to a talk by like of one of those very narrow evangelist speech it really make you furious the way I think everybody is a sinner to him and see his science and he stands in front of churches and yells at all the people going to church that you are all sinners you're all going to go into hell but think about it what he is saying I am able to look through that very offensive presentation look through it to this essential message it's still the same message the packaging is very offensive it's very rough but the same message there is an ultimate reality you realize it you are safe your problems you don't realize it you're inviting trouble exactly the highest odd non-dual Hindu philosophy gorup are they saying Crippen ah you are in serious trouble if you don't realize that same thing yes yes I'll come to you Chen Buddhism is cool Indu ism yeah okay yes is then cool Indu ism see the Sandhya mundum is a grim duty it's because we are made into that if you actually see into the heart of what it is it's a beautiful ritual but we have made it into a into a dry McCann any kind of ritual can become dry and I am sure if you drink tea like that morning and evening we're going to get sick of it very soon now cool Indu ism that reminds me of something at I'll share it openly now it's a person I'm talking about is long gone it was about Swami Vivekananda I heard this in Santa Barbara at that time then had become very popular it was in the 1960s 50s in 60s so one of the nuns in Santa Barbara told me that one day in the early 70s actually so pavithrananda ji who was here and he was the minister here from 1951 to 1977 he used to visit California every summer the Vedanta Society of Southern California because the founder dear Papa Von D was his friend had two to two friends so one day the nuns there asked him the Zen Buddhism is very popular there Swami what do you think of Zen Buddhism and the Swami it seems was and he spoke very little and cryptic Swami what do you think of Zen Buddhism now what do you think of Zen so only what do you think of them perverted Buddhism make makeup that what you will now I understand why as M seems to be cool but you know if you pursue it a little deeply ultimately what does it it leads to the same reality no doubt Satori realization yes but their approach is a little different Zen the word itself is very interesting roots Chang dianna the the Sanskrit word for meditation dianna becomes the Tibetan and jhana a poly jhana and then that becomes the Chinese Chan and the Chinese Chan becomes the Japanese Zen so it definitely roots in Buddhism of course it's Buddhistic it would roots in India too so it comes from there but there's a difference the Zen approach is basically to short-circuit the intellect so something like a Quran is given in one of the and not I don't know the Rings I see a nosotros in one season they say meditation on a corne a paradoxical saying what's the sound of one hand clapping what's the sound of one hand clapping don't give me an answer sit and meditate on it how long hours and hours and days and days and months and months and years and years what is the sound of one hand clapping hindi would say I can if I devote this time to be meditating or Kali or Krishna or Shiva I would become enlightened much sooner but anyway now the point is not to get an answer it's a question which the intellect cannot give an answer to if you come up with the answer there's stories of students coming up with the answer and they go quickly have to tell the teacher the Roshi that I have come with this answer and he says he opens his mouth and give ways to give a give a answer to that and the RO she has a bamboo stick and hits him on the head with it go back and meditate and second time he comes when he opens his mouth even before he started to give the answer the bamboo stick comes back go back meditate and the finally when he comes back his face is supposed to be shining with the truth and realization and the road she says yes you've got it so this is the way they approach it and they call realization Satori and does it work I am personally sure that it does work and if you see the examples of enlightened when there are different degrees of opening up so it does what it's there but uh what about your devotional instinct what about your instinct to do something what about your instinct to understand your gana side of it the bhakti side of it the karma side of it all of it is supposed to be curved held in check only the meditation aspect is emphasized there whereas in Vedanta all aspects are emphasized question yes come to you you is all out of the syllabus questions you just stick to God or father huh tell me right to cut the callee with the sword of knowledge he says so that the formless aspect will be realized but after do you realize the formless aspect the form is also the same reality Saguna and nilgiris Sokka Sokka and nirakara Sarkar is wit for our karma means form Sakura means with for nirakara without form the ohm for example without form formless and the form both are the same reality that is what you realize but before that when you think the farm alone is the reality the formulas has not been realized yet you must go beyond to the Zen saying is also there if you meet the Buddha on the path kill dumbledore cut the Buddha half which means go beyond the Buddha or go beyond that most beloved the Ishta devatha which you are experiencing not that not you're giving up Kali you're realizing the formless aspect of Kali yeah so that is what totally pushed sri ramakrishna into but what to hapless problem was the formless is the the highest it is the real stop Sri Ramakrishna says now come back and look at Kali and people in the world you see the same reality the form this is the form that story I've told you about in Uttarakhand it it works only in Hindi but I'll tell you again there was this pundit who argued for the wit form God with form is real Sarkar such a sacar such a God with form because he's the worshipper of Krishna or something like that so God with form is real and the non dualist you know the Swami was a non duelist the monk with whom he argued he said Naraka the formless is real and they argued and argued and argued and finally this funded devotee he agreed he said Swami you are right the formless alone is real naraka are such optical teeny rocket when the Swami replied or Sarkar Tara cha-cha what does it mean in English the formless I agree God without firm is the ultimate reality you are right at that point the Swami who had been arguing for the formless reality says then what about the one which formed with whom you are arguing for till now is it your uncle who is the who's that your uncle if you can't translate the idiom into English it simply means it's the same reality you're making the same mistake again yes last question all out of the question syllabus questions nobody is asking about God our Father and Turia and everybody's worried about poor God and then doership of God go on yeah no no it's not it's dualistic well thing is its dualistic the thing is what the non-diverse would say that understand the non-dual background of this worship Shri Ramakrishna said tie the knowledge of non-duality to the hem of your class and then do whatever you like in Bengali or do it again actually by the age I'd say Takada tie the knowledge of non-duality to the hem of your cloth and do what hey Malik lot is it is a tipping releasing in I mean in India women of earlier generations they had didn't have pockets so they would tie the keys of the household to the to the sari to the yeah I've seen my grandpa grandmothers do it also now it's everybody has pockets I'll tell you a funny story or pockets so sri ramakrishna said tie the knowledge of non-duality to the hem of your cloth and then do whatever you like do whatever you like means then if you want to do service do serve God serve God in all beings if you want to do devotion worship God in the form of Kali Krishna whatever you like if you want to remain immersed in meditation remain immersed in meditation you can do whatever you like so then the non duelist has no objection what the Nandu is objecting to is that object is God see this was that the root of the that do not worship an image the commandments idolatry why is it taken in such a big big problem in the Abrahamic religions because if you think that God is an object out there a team that's definitely not God yes God is the subs inner subject that to deal is the reality beyond but that became a huge issue because there's a context to it in the Middle East there were people worshipping images in a very grossest form with human sacrifice and things like that so the Abrahamic religions Moses and all they did cut it down at the root but then the problem became that also became an issue of fanaticism so when they encountered encountered this panoply of images we have the Ganesha and the ten arms are the things like that and I thought ah here are those graven images we must destroy them so whether it is the Christian or the Muslim they came and smashed temples and idols and things like that and and say the thing we're doing the right thing because we are following the commandment they don't understand the the worship that Hindus did it was a much more sophisticated thing they understood the idea that it is not an object the thing is to have any kind of practice you need an object to help you but you know that's not the ultimate reality you know that the pure consciousness which is not an object is the ultimate reality after that when if you see the mantras of poojas they make it very clear that God is not a thing out there but that was not seen they just saw the images and this so there was enormous violence against Hindu places of worship so that was the that's the point of the non dualist don't take it as an object in fact gain openshot says see and yet yet not Naomi Adam opacity today ava Bromham with dean a demure Didem opacity yet yet Jack Shoshana pashyati an attraction capacity today Abram had Tom with DNA Tamiya didn't opacity what the eyes cannot see by which the eyes see no that alone to be brahmin not what you worship as this Edom opacity yet so train an astronaut a in a shroud trauma don't show them what the ears cannot hear but by which the years here know that alone to be brandman the ultimate reality not what you worship as this sea can open issues one after another one after another it goes on saying this the pure consciousness beyond all of this so that's what the reality is but the entire Eden is the entirety of image worship wrong that's why these subjects are so have to be handled so carefully so is a God of power or do open assured saying that image worship is wrong not at all if you look into the technology it's a kind of technology you look into the technology of those image worship that them the mantras associated with it the rituals the prana pratishta and if you see the actual process of puja it's actually objectifying what is essentially a subject and then again inviting that divinized the object to the divinity back into the subject that's what is done Durga Puja beautiful at the end of the puja how the image of the Divine Mother first how it it is a presence is invoked in there and the present is invited back into your own consciousness again very sophisticated in fact if you push it further this idea of God in heaven God as the Father God as an as a dualistic God the Hindu can always claim that is idolatry with a conceiving of a separate God that's what God had his in fact condemning he's condemning exactly that thing here and said that is there is no talk of true freedom there then that limits you to this world of appearances the first three yes thank you very much we'll go on with this let's see what go to pod has to teach right now he started with a few bitter words harsh words a wake-up call and then we'll see where he goes with this shantih shantih shantih hurry he owned that sat sri ramakrishna eponymous too